The odd wrinkle to Christian readings of the American revolution is that the United Kingdom was a Christian nation. Presbyterians were the established church in Scotland. And King George was head of a church that claimed George Washington as a member (and he was an orthodox Christian, you know). Plus, it seems that King George III wasn’t all that bad a king.
What the United States did was to establish itself without a Christian church. Advocates of a Christian America may not like the language of the separation of church and state, but what the United States did in comparison to Europe and 1500 years of history (and even compared to France where Napolean eventually made Roman Catholicism the established church) was to create a nation without a state church (at the national level — hello) and that prohibited religious tests for holding office. That also meant the churches (except for Congregationalists in New England) had to pay as they went on the basis of their own creative schemes for finding parishioners and persuading them to give (till it hurts — I mean, tithe).
Wednesday, July 15, 2015
D. G. Hart: "When Did Christian America End?"
Check it out here. A taste:
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7 comments:
Nothing in this excerpt comes as news to anyone, not even David Barton. [Although Hart seems unaware that in addition to established churches in the states, religious test for statewide office as well.]
The rest of his essay is quite germane these days. For our first 200 years, if America wasn’t a Christian nation, it lived in deliberate accommodation with it, few ever having to choose their nation or their religion
The courts have taken a strong turn to “strict separation” in the past few decades, and now as we see with Obama going after the Little Sisters of the Poor, we’re now in a state of open hostility and indeed open warfare against religious conscience, the government forcing us to choose one or the other.
[A corollary is that the nation was founded on an acceptance of natural law, which of course is not in conflict with the Bible, so the accommodation of Biblical sensibilities was an easy one. It wasn’t necessary to spell out the obvious, say that marriage is between a man and a woman, and in large part for the protection of the woman and whatever children sexual relations might produce.
But we have abolished the natural law in the public square, and as such reduced marriage to no more than sexual gratification, untethered from the reproductive function. Therefore gay marriage is the only “fair” thing to do, and by George, there it is in the Constitution!]
The short answer is around about 1964, and at the behest of members of the legal profession hostile to vernacular society and culture (William O. Douglas I'm looking at you).
the government forcing us to choose one or the other.
Again, it's the government transmogrified into the private instrument of the legal profession and a certain type of haut bourgeois generally. Cretins like Obama, Ted Olson, and Rob Portman are cut from much the same cloth. They just have slightly different professional networks.
I was probably a bit too harsh on Mr. Hart, and so have included his very civil and gracious response to my critique of his blogpost.
JMS Posted July 20, 2015 at 4:39 pm
1.Regarding your question of “when did Christian America end,” I think your initial answer was the correct one: 1789 (U.S. Constitution).
But if you want to fast-forward to the present, why pick on Oregon (where I reside) or even raise the question of the U.S. “kicking out” certain states (I assume you want Oregon removed from the union)?
Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution states that, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.” The basic idea of a self-governing people or popular sovereignty of people is the important contribution of republicanism to modern democracy. A compelling example of this is the Death with Dignity law strongly supported by the majority of Oregon voters twice, sustained by two federal lawsuits, given broad support from two-thirds of the American people, and ultimately upheld by the SCOTUS. If you or others think it is unChristian or unAmerican, you have the right to hold and express those views.
I think your blogpost demonstrates why the founders created a secular government amidst a deeply Protestant culture. It is the right of individual Oregonians, not doctors, religions (yours or mine) or politicians (those liberty-loving, small government, states’ rights adherents like George and Jeb Bush, John Ashcroft or Alberto Gonzales), to govern their own end-of-life, pain management and palliative care choices.
Last, if you want to pick a galvanizing series of shocking revelations from the 1980s or 1990s that might have “ended Christian America,” my pick would be the Roman Catholic priest child sexual molestations (and church hierarchy cover-ups). This scandal had a greater impact globally, especially in Ireland. The Republic of Ireland (as entrenched a Catholic country as you can find), just voted to approve same-sex marriage (which you obviously deplore, and consider some sort of watershed event), and provides another example of self-governing democracy ignoring norms espoused, but not followed, by church hierarchies.
So, when you examine why religious adherents lose their faith, it is usually religious institutions that are the culprits, rather than any feared or disliked external forces (e.g., liberal secular humanists).
2. D. G. Hart
Posted July 20, 2015 at 5:03 pm
JMS, who said blogs are supposed to stay on point? But thanks for letting me express my views.
I personally like Oregon and think that American popular culture would be diminished without Portlandia.
In case you haven’t noticed, I’m more concerned with Outrage Porn than with Portland. But I wouldn’t mind it if in the land that celebrates freedom every July 4th it didn’t act like the Union was prison.
Last, if you want to pick a galvanizing series of shocking revelations from the 1980s or 1990s that might have “ended Christian America,” my pick would be the Roman Catholic priest child sexual molestations (and church hierarchy cover-ups).
If you want to pick an example of a social phenomenon described in a slovenly and tendentious way, pick this one. Complaints against priests, with few exceptions, were offered years or decades after the fact with little or no corroboration (the median lapse of time for the full set of complaints in the diocese of Syracuse was 25 years. For complaints received prior to 2002 it was somewhat lower. The notion that bishops were routinely evaluating complaints made in real time is fiction. There are also reasons why bishops commonly did not refer matters to the police: there was nothing stopping complainants from doing so, the bishops commonly had nothing but some personal accounts, and prosecution of the charges in question was commonly time-barred.
Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution states that, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.” The basic idea of a self-governing people or popular sovereignty of people is the important contribution of republicanism to modern democracy. A compelling example of this is the Death with Dignity law strongly supported by the majority of Oregon voters twice, sustained by two federal lawsuits, given broad support from two-thirds of the American people, and ultimately upheld by the SCOTUS. If you or others think it is unChristian or unAmerican, you have the right to hold and express those views.
Thanks. Now can states write their own matrimonial law, or does this 'republican form of government' chatter apply only to thinks the Anointed wants?
It is the right of individual Oregonians, not doctors, religions (yours or mine) or politicians (those liberty-loving, small government, states’ rights adherents like George and Jeb Bush, John Ashcroft or Alberto Gonzales), to govern their own end-of-life, pain management and palliative care choices.
And Dame Cicely Sunders would have pointed out to you that end-of-life decisions are not made in a social or cultural vacuum.
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