tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post837116434145867959..comments2024-03-28T10:44:30.518-06:00Comments on American Creation: Did James Wilson Pen the Constitution?Brad Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-45209460676573212512012-01-29T17:05:06.925-07:002012-01-29T17:05:06.925-07:00This is some good old American History. God bless ...This is some good old American History. God bless America.Window Cleaning Irvinehttp://www.windowcleaningirvine.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-34311294328817037422011-01-16T20:48:36.587-07:002011-01-16T20:48:36.587-07:00This is a good piece of history. This is alot of g...This is a good piece of history. This is alot of good information and we will share it with the class.Custom Home Detailinghttp://www.customhomedetailing.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-60429536669015536792010-06-03T01:41:14.872-06:002010-06-03T01:41:14.872-06:00Nice and informative post on this topic thanks for...Nice and informative post on this topic thanks for sharing with us.Thank you!Custom writinghttp://www.advantagepapers.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-36992376977379207292010-03-10T05:25:21.970-07:002010-03-10T05:25:21.970-07:00I have been reading your post regularly. They are ...I have been reading your post regularly. They are highly informative and helpful.Term Papershttp://www.flashpapers.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-85261895179655615882010-02-08T11:11:12.294-07:002010-02-08T11:11:12.294-07:00Thanks for stopping by our blog, Mrs. Toler. If y...Thanks for stopping by our blog, Mrs. Toler. If you get a chance, I am sure many of us would love to hear more about your find.Brad Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-83581518035442324722010-02-08T10:00:42.167-07:002010-02-08T10:00:42.167-07:00Wanted to share a few of the missing facts in the ...Wanted to share a few of the missing facts in the Deseret News article:<br /><br />* I was homeschooled for two years during junior high. I attended Timpview High School for all four years of high school (9th-12th grade).<br />* I graduated with my BA in 2000, my JD in 2005, and will graduate with my MSt from Oxford this year, and my doctorate from Oxford in 2012.<br />* I was misquoted on Jefferson. The Deseret News has apologized individually to me, and I have asked them to officially print an errata. The quote should have been "I believe this draft may indicate that James Wilson is to the Constitution what Thomas Jefferson is to the Declaration of Independence." Understandable error: it's hard to type as fast as I talk.<br /><br />Feel free to email with any other factual questions, lorianne.updike.toler@consource.org, or review the Q&A at www.consource.org.Lorianne Updike Tolernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-5801411555716444432010-02-07T20:25:38.254-07:002010-02-07T20:25:38.254-07:00Wilson is generally acknowledged as one of the Big...Wilson is generally acknowledged as one of the Big 3, the men who spoke the most at the Framing, the others being Madison and Gouverneur Morris.<br /><br />I happen to agree that Jefferson is overrated, and that Wilson should be looked at as more typical of the Founding consensus.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-53797781336996271812010-02-07T19:43:25.322-07:002010-02-07T19:43:25.322-07:00Apropos of the theme of this blog, Toler’s quotati...Apropos of the theme of this blog, Toler’s quotation literally says we should pay more attention to James Wilson, and less to Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson’s views on the separation of church and state and the true elements of Christianity are well known, and not all that pleasing to people who advocate less separation and more orthodox Christianity. Those folks can use Wilson’s less famous words in favor of their argument, as in <a href="http://americancreation.blogspot.com/2009/10/james-wilson-on-christianity.html" rel="nofollow">this discussion from last fall</a>. So Toler’s opposition of Jefferson and Wilson might not be a simple slip, or a reporter’s error; it might be a clue to why she’s eager to elevate Wilson as a major drafter of the Constitution.J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-43683395877560764362010-02-07T14:50:57.516-07:002010-02-07T14:50:57.516-07:00I'm inclined to be less generous to Ms. Toler ...I'm inclined to be less generous to Ms. Toler on the Jefferson issue. Since it's James Madison who's generally known as "the father of the Constitution," the substitution of his name for Jefferson's would make the sentence logical. But the substitution of "The Declaration" for "the Constitution" would leave the sentence still not making sense.<br /><br />I noticed two other things that make me doubt her credentials. One--and I know some will find this objectionable--she was home-schooled. I have dealt with home-schooled students, and while they don't differ from other students in intelligence, in my experience they tend to emphasize a dubious "creativity" over analytical ability. That's a rather natural consequence of being taught by people who aren't themselves experts in all the fields you're studying. Second, the article suggests she has only a B.A., although it's not clear. I would think that if she had a graduate degree they would say so (but I'm open to correction, as that is a factual matter). So I'm left wondering whether she has the proper training to make real sense of this find.<br /><br />Finally, she has a comment that leads me to suspect that she doesn't have that training. Because the writing is apparently different in style than Wilson's known writings, she speculates that it was his "relaxed, scatterbrained" mode. A good historian would provide a little more evidence that Wilson in fact had such a mode, before attributing a dubious item to him.<br /><br />And, of course, there's a certain level of foolishness among all involved who suggest that any one or two men could be "the author(s)" of the Constitution. Certain people seem to consistently forget that there was a whole convention, and despite the varying contributions of many, all who participated helped determine the content by voting for or against certain proposals, and as such, they are all authors.James Hanleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18431950784819780004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-78717590365169336162010-02-07T12:25:43.545-07:002010-02-07T12:25:43.545-07:00As a student of James Wilson (my first book was Th...As a student of James Wilson (my first book was The Political and Legal Philosophy of James Wilson, 1742-1798, and a few years ago I co-edited the Collected Works of James Wilson), I was accosted Tuesday morning by kind people forwarding me copies of a Philadelphia Inquirer story about the discover of a new draft of the Constitution written in Wilson’s hand. It was not clear from the newspaper what exactly had been found, so when a HSP staff member offered to send me digital images of the newly discovered documents to me, I was thrilled. I must say I was disappointed to find that these documents had long been known to scholars. They were published in the same order suggested by Ms. Toler by Max Farrand in 1911 (The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, 2: 150-153). It seems a stretch to call these notes a “draft” of the Constitution, and labeling them as such adds little to our knowledge of Wilson or the Constitutional Convention. It is fine that Ms. Toler found the misfiled documents, and I applaud her work with the Constitutional Sources Project, but media accounts of the significance of her discovery were, it seems me, exaggerated.<br /><br />For further discussion see:<br /><br />http://processandpreserve.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/what-constitutes-a-physical-copy-of-the-u-s-constitution/#respondMark David Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03629307463593275435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-27362785570222294552010-02-07T04:53:47.138-07:002010-02-07T04:53:47.138-07:00Wow. James Wilson is my favorite Founder, as y...Wow. James Wilson is my favorite Founder, as y'all might know. The wisest of all.<br /><br />I don't believe this, although it's danged interesting and I hold my mind open. I wouldn't be surprised that Wilson was Da Man, the force behind the force. <br /><br />Madison lost a lot of battles in the drafting of the Constitution.<br /><br />But it's unimportant. As I noted in my last comment, it was acknowledged by all at the Framing debates that the top 3 were Madison, GMorris and Wilson. And it's not as if the rest of the Framers sat there like sheep.<br /><br />But thx, Jon. Giving even more cred to TVD's favorite Founder, the one man, after reading his writings extensively, I have seldom if ever disagreed with. His wisdom makes my draw drop. Dude was righteous.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-3763512000291517892010-02-06T18:22:49.576-07:002010-02-06T18:22:49.576-07:00That's a good analogy, Jon. I doubt she will ...That's a good analogy, Jon. I doubt she will be able to make this case, though. It's not like she's breaking any new ground here (and I was probably a little too generous to say that she's "thrown a wrench into the workings of early American historiography). Everyone knows that Wilson had a big role to play at the convention. He was, after all, a member of the Committee of Detail:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_of_Detail<br /><br />So I think for her to make the claim that the Constitution is the exclusive brainchild of Wilson is too much. With that said, I don't think her discovery is without merit. This could still prove quite interesting.Brad Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-9225049456006108152010-02-06T18:01:38.637-07:002010-02-06T18:01:38.637-07:00Jon,
That had to be what she meant. That jumped ...Jon,<br /><br />That had to be what she meant. That jumped out to me too.King of Irelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11793825722325763371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-68323547383779405232010-02-06T17:15:03.901-07:002010-02-06T17:15:03.901-07:00I saw this story. To be charitable to Ms. Toler, ...I saw this story. To be charitable to Ms. Toler, I'm asuming she meant this find means James Wilson is to the US Constitution, what Jefferson was to the DOI.<br /><br />The document, as the story goes, wasn't newly discovered, but buried?Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.com