tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post5810715283030265139..comments2024-03-28T10:44:30.518-06:00Comments on American Creation: Was Thomas Jefferson a Conservative?Brad Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-66746550207764837572013-12-19T08:46:29.860-07:002013-12-19T08:46:29.860-07:00Rather anachronistic to apply contemporary politic...Rather anachronistic to apply contemporary political short-hand to Jefferson. Unnecessary too.<br /><br />--<br /><br />That aside, the most durable usage of the term 'conservative' would be as a descriptor of a general disposition toward social life: the notion that there is intelligence encoded in extant practices that you cannot discern very clearly. That disposition does not describe Jefferson. Art Decohttp://wwrtc.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-49301548732347534422013-12-12T22:13:23.130-07:002013-12-12T22:13:23.130-07:00Good stuff, Lee. And the bit about Jefferson being...Good stuff, Lee. And the bit about Jefferson being repulsed by Jackson and <i>genuine</i> egalitarianism is a hoot!<br /><br />[I'm not a fan. He was a good dreamer in 1776 and quite a competent and pragmatic president. My admiration is limited to those two periods. Otherwise, he was a backstabbing hypocrite.]Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-15970711043114707782013-12-12T21:27:54.775-07:002013-12-12T21:27:54.775-07:00I think on political economy, he may be considered...I think on political economy, he may be considered conservative--at least in that nearly meaningless sense of "opposed to change." He hoped that the abundance of land would forestall the appearance of manufacturing enterprise, although he recognized it as inevitable. Hamilton, trying to jump-start the process appears more the innovator on this score. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-22452720351721103842013-12-12T21:23:45.254-07:002013-12-12T21:23:45.254-07:00As you say, Jefferson's optimistic views on hu...As you say, Jefferson's optimistic views on human nature and prospects for democracy set him apart from conservatives. It is convenient, however, that those views proved compatible with the political culture of 18th century Virginia.Although suffrage was widespread compared to Britain, the traditional deference for local elites like Jefferson remained an enduring feature. It's easy for Jefferson to exalt the common man when they defer to him as a "natural aristocrat." Personality counted more than policies. I understand that only after the adoption of the Constitution of 1787, the nationalization of political controversies, and the rise of political parties did this deferential attitude begin to subside. <br /><br />Now Jefferson despised Andrew Jackson. I wonder if he would have revised his views on the common man and democracy had he lived long enough to witness the democracy of the Age of Jackson.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-35658036016760448812013-12-12T15:04:55.864-07:002013-12-12T15:04:55.864-07:00And does "conservatism" refer to those &...<i>And does "conservatism" refer to those "eternal verities" embraced by self-professed conservatives of any era or does it rest upon particular historical circumstances of a given era?<br /><br /></i><br /><br />Eternal verities, unchanging and objective standards of right and wrong [for instance "natural law" theory], and a recognition of human nature as not subject to redesign by the state or by ideology/political correctness.<br /><br />Also prudence, that "society" is a highly complex organism that we will never fully be able to understand and predict the subtle interactions of, and so we should be cautious about uprooting its pillars, lest the roof cave in.<br /><br />The latter is of course why we question Jefferson's conservatism, since the French Revolution he supported was one of the first radicalisms of modernity--a proposed reinvention of both society and man himself--and conservatism ala Edmund Burke says, well, hold on there fella. Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-90071919006738063982013-12-12T07:48:45.286-07:002013-12-12T07:48:45.286-07:00All this turns on whether or not we can reach a co...All this turns on whether or not we can reach a consensus on a definition of "conservatism," a task which has eluded even those of us who call ourselves conservatives. And does "conservatism" refer to those "eternal verities" embraced by self-professed conservatives of any era or does it rest upon particular historical circumstances of a given era?leehttp://secularsquare.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-1209910005368630332013-12-10T17:24:58.880-07:002013-12-10T17:24:58.880-07:00I just left you a fuller quote than you had on Jef...I just left you a fuller quote than you had on Jefferson and Islam.<br /><br />http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/208878<br /><br /><i>"The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every musselman [muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."<br /><br />This statement was a part of a March 28, 1786, letter from John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, the United States Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Continental Congress, concerning their conversation with the Tripoli ambassador as to why his pirates/terrorists hijacked our merchant ships, stole the ships and cargo while holding the sailors for ransom. (Thomas Jefferson. "The Papers of Thomas Jefferson". Princeton Univ. Press. pp. 9:358.)</i>Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-88157404765639190272013-12-10T15:03:00.422-07:002013-12-10T15:03:00.422-07:00Read Thomas Jefferson's own words in his blog ...Read Thomas Jefferson's own words in his blog and form your own opinion! <br />Several times each week, he posts BRIEFLY on a variety of topics.<br /><br />Recent posts include:<br />- “It was a dark and stormy night … “<br />- Do you want fries with that?<br />- What do maple trees have to do with slavery?<br />- Did Jefferson oppose Islam?<br />- Rebellion, liberty, blood & manure!<br />- Luxury, drinking & whores! Oh my!<br /><br />Read the blog at http://ThomasJeffersonLeadership.com/blog/<br /><br /><br /><br />PatrickLeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08991293096712510632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-79736549404095774212013-12-09T23:16:04.532-07:002013-12-09T23:16:04.532-07:00Agreed on all points, Tom. And I'll make the ...Agreed on all points, Tom. And I'll make the correction in my main post. Personally, I don't see Jefferson as being part of the conservative tradition. Mark D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05000893614655251587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-40907316171768469202013-12-08T19:58:34.917-07:002013-12-08T19:58:34.917-07:00I think you meant to write "While NOT much of...I think you meant to write "While NOT much of a fan of Jefferson myself."<br /><br />Me neither. Frankly, Jefferson the man was a hypocritical pig, and of his politics, his support for the French Revolution--even after its radicalism and tyranny were revealed--makes it impossible to attribute to him and real coherence of principles, especially "conservative" ones.<br /><br />Indeed, Edmund Burke is known as the godfather of modern conservatism, precisely for his rejection of French radicalism.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.com