tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post6142717832206733709..comments2024-03-28T10:44:30.518-06:00Comments on American Creation: Gouverneur Morris, Theistic RationalistBrad Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-60724000083543612312008-09-08T14:43:00.000-06:002008-09-08T14:43:00.000-06:00Hehe, good one, Phil. But I'm not a preacher eith...Hehe, good one, Phil. But I'm not a preacher either.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-13456302365927472962008-09-08T09:23:00.000-06:002008-09-08T09:23:00.000-06:00TVK sez, "Academia is where honest inquiry goes to...TVK sez, "<I>Academia is where honest inquiry goes to die.</I><BR/>.<BR/>It looks like you've misspoken yourself there, Tom.<BR/>.<BR/>Are you sure you didn't mean to say, "<I>[Ecclesia] is where honest inquiry goes to die.</I><BR/>.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06756814849309388483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-27924247907437783792008-09-07T20:31:00.000-06:002008-09-07T20:31:00.000-06:00Heaven forbid, Mr. Johnson. Academia is where hone...Heaven forbid, Mr. Johnson. Academia is where honest inquiry goes to die.<BR/><BR/>There's a small blurb on my personal self on the sidebar to the right under "Meet the Contributors." Thx for asking.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-11501936087521090822008-09-07T16:30:00.000-06:002008-09-07T16:30:00.000-06:00It went right past me.Sorry about that..But I lear...It went right past me.<BR/><BR/>Sorry about that.<BR/>.<BR/>But I learned a new word in one of Johathon's posts, inapt, that at first I thought was a misspelling. <BR/>.<BR/>What kind of work do you do, Tom?<BR/>.<BR/>Are you in academia?Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06756814849309388483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-6138204560916555082008-09-07T13:10:00.000-06:002008-09-07T13:10:00.000-06:00Dang. I thought you'd enjoy the L'il Abner refere...Dang. I thought you'd enjoy the L'il Abner reference, Phil. Obviously you're not very interested in engaging the rest.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-15504387079795866172008-09-06T20:56:00.000-06:002008-09-06T20:56:00.000-06:00Geez....Geez....Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06756814849309388483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-69725352129350165552008-09-06T20:39:00.000-06:002008-09-06T20:39:00.000-06:00"Theistic rationalist" is an oxymoron especially a..."Theistic rationalist" is an oxymoron <I>especially</I> as used in this context. I gave my arguments why I think so, did I not, Ben?<BR/><BR/>Please do present some useful counterarguments. I continue to be unhappy with Dr, Frazer's catchall term; although it has some value, it's limited, and fatally limited, in my view.<BR/><BR/>To "explicitly define a word prior to its descriptive use" is merely an admission that we're inventing a new term. So let's just call 'em btfsplks or shmoos and be done with it. [That one was for you, Brother Pinky.]<BR/><BR/>I really don't want to get off on sophistries or theories of language, Ben, although it would be mild fun. "Judeo-Christians" works better for me until somebody argues otherwise.<BR/><BR/>Which they don't. When it comes to the total landscape of the Founding, I find "Judeo-Christian" both more definitive <I>and</I> descriptive than "theistic rationalist."<BR/><BR/>I gave my reasons, right? Just checking. I engage Dr. Frazer's argument on its own terms, so it would be proper for you to engage my counterargument with the same good cheer.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-61718287855604973492008-09-06T18:30:00.000-06:002008-09-06T18:30:00.000-06:00Tom: >>"Christian," especially use...Tom: >>"Christian," especially used in the orthodox sense, is a definitive term. "Theistic rationalist" is at best a descriptive term.<<<BR/><BR/>Tom, if I'm not mistaken the term "Theistic rationalist" was explicitly <I>defined</I> prior to its descriptive use ... it is both definitive <I>and</I> descriptive.<BR/><BR/>By the way what is <B>the</B> definitive definition of <I>Christian</I>? ... orthodox or otherwise?bpabbotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17047791198702983998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-26258886152738594072008-09-06T14:29:00.000-06:002008-09-06T14:29:00.000-06:00"Christian," especially used in the orthodox sense..."Christian," especially used in the orthodox sense, is a definitive term. "Theistic rationalist" is at best a descriptive term, and can easily shed as much confusion as clarity. They cannot be used as either/or---they are apples and oranges.<BR/><BR/>One may conclude rationally that there is some God-as-creator, but belief in divine providence is a belief. An atheist/rationalist like Richard Dawkins, and not unfairly, might call it "superstition."<BR/><BR/>That God spoke or directly inspired man in the Holy Scriptures, even partially, isn't rational---it's a belief. Dawkins might call it---again, not unfairly---nonsense.<BR/><BR/>And although today's scholars may assert that God of an [admittedly significant] handful of Founding Fathers was "one of their own invention," they would have to prove that that God was essentially different from the Judeo-Christian one. ["Judeo-" obviating all the Jesus-as-God business.]<BR/><BR/>I don't see the essential difference, nor how that God resembles the one of other world religions as much as it does Judeo-Christianity's.<BR/><BR/>But I'm always willing to learn.<BR/><BR/>As for Gouverneur Morris, yes, he was quite influential, but he was also an embarrassment. But he wasn't a hypocrite, I suppose, and that counts for everything in some circles.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-85211305762723158112008-09-06T11:07:00.000-06:002008-09-06T11:07:00.000-06:00Priceless..Thanx-a-millyun!Priceless.<BR/>.<BR/>Thanx-a-millyun!Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06756814849309388483noreply@blogger.com