tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post3796579530044167832..comments2024-03-28T10:44:30.518-06:00Comments on American Creation: Freedom of Religion Necessarily Means a Right to Sin According to Special, Not Necessarily General RevelationBrad Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-38853186460265269182009-11-27T00:42:59.939-07:002009-11-27T00:42:59.939-07:00“Human nature…could be reduced to and treated as a...“Human nature…could be reduced to and treated as a readily available biological or social material. This ultimately means making freedom self-defining and a phenomenon creative of itself and its values. Indeed, when all is said and done man would not even have a nature, he would be his own personal life-project. Man would be nothing more than his own freedom!”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-46439174900639280992009-11-26T20:31:52.795-07:002009-11-26T20:31:52.795-07:00I want some Greek sources that advocate the worth ...<i>I want some Greek sources that advocate the worth of the individual let alone grounding it as inalienable because of man being made in the image of god.</i><br /><br />Yah.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-40357018030688919632009-11-26T18:01:12.438-07:002009-11-26T18:01:12.438-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.King of Irelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11793825722325763371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-46157702324323863542009-11-26T18:01:09.262-07:002009-11-26T18:01:09.262-07:00Rational Christianity enhances Greek thought. I w...Rational Christianity enhances Greek thought. I would even say takes it to the next level.King of Irelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11793825722325763371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-47733724559233405302009-11-26T17:53:16.677-07:002009-11-26T17:53:16.677-07:00Jon,
I am not sure how deals with it but I am ass...Jon,<br /><br />I am not sure how deals with it but I am assuming from the circles he walks in that he is religious right. If so I would imagen he would want to avoid that issue. I would if I was him. As far as it concerns my position it does not matter where it originated. JRB and I went back and forth on this last summer. I want some Greek sources that advocate the worth of the individual let alone grounding it as inalienable because of man being made in the image of god. This gets deeply theological from here.King of Irelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11793825722325763371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-47448857551982578912009-11-26T17:07:24.174-07:002009-11-26T17:07:24.174-07:00KOI:
To the extent that "laws of Nature and ...KOI:<br /><br />To the extent that "laws of Nature and Nature's God was used in Christendom pre-Aquinas, ONLY reflects how Aristotle and and noble pagan Greco-Roman sources were incorporated into Christendom before Aquinas. I think someone brought up Tertullian (ca. 160 – ca. 220 A.D.). From what I know he loved Seneca and was totally imbibed in the noble paganism of Greco-Roman Stoicism. <br /><br />If there is any kind of Christianity that forms the "political theology" basis of the DOI, it's that kind that embraces its noble pagan Greco-Roman roots that was incorporated into Christendom, NOT Francis Schaeffer's Sola Scriptura that wants to purify orthodox Christianity from those influences.<br /><br />How does Amos deal with that issue?Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-57323422830975885632009-11-26T16:05:49.087-07:002009-11-26T16:05:49.087-07:00If I have time this weekend I will post on the hig...If I have time this weekend I will post on the highlights of his argument and you can comment.King of Irelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11793825722325763371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-46754889913499516992009-11-26T16:05:05.274-07:002009-11-26T16:05:05.274-07:00Jon stated:
"This covers a key point I often...Jon stated:<br /><br />"This covers a key point I often stress. "The laws of Nature and Nature's God" -- the metaphysical grounding for America's Founding ideals -- is not shorthand for what's written in the Bible, but rather what's discovered by reason."<br /><br />Amos would disagree and gives some compelling reasons why. He says this is a Christian saying from pre-Aquinas. You have any evidence he is wrong?King of Irelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11793825722325763371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-28022292190782787302009-11-26T10:53:53.734-07:002009-11-26T10:53:53.734-07:00I think you'll like Hamburger's article be...I think you'll like Hamburger's article better than Barnett's. It's something to take it slowly.<br /><br />I don't know if Barnett ever did a live debate against Hamburger; I do know he has with Robbie George a number of times. <br /><br />The Georgetown forum debate I think features it archived. I always knew I was going to get to it. It's becoming more timely.Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-69014396760066752062009-11-26T10:44:22.686-07:002009-11-26T10:44:22.686-07:00I think you make a great case here per the Hindus,...I think you make a great case here per the Hindus, Jon.<br /><br />You write elsewhere:<br /><br /><i>I wonder Tom, how Wilson's comments that law traces upward necessarily doesn't put him on the side of a presumption of liberty.<br /><br />I see Wilson's thoughts as entirely consistent with for instance, the libertarian orthodox Christianity of Jim Babka or perhaps even KOI. It could be that Wilson's concept of rights being unenumerable is limited to do only those things that would pass Aristotelian-Thomistic test of naturalness.</i><br /><br />Locke<br /><br />http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/locke_liberty_vs_licence.html<br /><br />is considering suicide here, but his larger argument seems to be natural law, and specifically promulgated under God's authority.<br /><br />The key phrase, "Liberty not license" is one that weaves through the Founding era's thought and rhetoric.<br /><br />Another point I've been meaning to get to is that "un-enumerable" is not synonymous with "unlimited," and I think you put your finger on my problem with Randy Barnett's distinction of natural right and natural law.<br /><br />It's a valid distinction, but how valid it was for the Founders is a different question. Even for a great legal mind like James Wilson, it seems to be a distinction without a difference, and I recall he writes that all law attempts to divine "the will of God."Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-13978925351818288752009-11-26T09:16:33.469-07:002009-11-26T09:16:33.469-07:00.
If we could be a little existential in our think....<br />If we could be a little existential in our thinking about the Founding generation we might see that each one of them was a product of his own experience.<br />.<br />I think those men must have been deeply in touch with the fabric of their society; so much so that they could only spoke as the body of We The People--whatever else might have been going on in their own minds. That's why they were in such prominent positions of leadership.<br />.<br />It was the custom of our forefathers to show respect for those that spoke most clearly on their behalf as a People.<br />.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06756814849309388483noreply@blogger.com