tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post2523043506785412720..comments2024-03-27T18:18:11.525-06:00Comments on American Creation: Thomas Jefferson and AntilegomenaBrad Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-30044611850417430222019-10-29T08:05:58.842-06:002019-10-29T08:05:58.842-06:00It should occur to you that there's something ...It should occur to you that there's something odoriferous about two sentences being recycled ad nauseam about this man, one a sentence fragment offered without context and one from someone who had a circumscribed acquaintanceship with him over a period of less than three years. That ain't him. That's the stupid latter-day cultural matrix we live in. Art Deconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-59747901762302091772019-10-29T04:43:21.270-06:002019-10-29T04:43:21.270-06:00From Wiki. Shirley Rhoades Perle may have best cap...From Wiki. Shirley Rhoades Perle may have best captured Lenny's nuance. I know some gay men (the more masculine types) where women just seem off their radar screens. But others who have more of an affinity for women and the feminine persona. They tend to have best female friends. And sometimes they marry (more common in the past) their bff. <br /><br />Though in terms of making "arrangements," given what I've read, I couldn't imagine a more understanding and accommodating wife than Felica.<br /><br />"In a book released in October 2013, The Leonard Bernstein Letters, his wife acknowledges his homosexuality. Felicia writes: "you are a homosexual and may never change—you don't admit to the possibility of a double life, but if your peace of mind, your health, your whole nervous system depend on a certain sexual pattern what can you do?" Arthur Laurents (Bernstein's collaborator in West Side Story) said that Bernstein was "a gay man who got married. He wasn't conflicted about it at all. He was just gay."[46] Shirley Rhoades Perle, another friend of Bernstein, said that she thought "he required men sexually and women emotionally."[47]"Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-11737168681157580682019-10-28T18:45:43.048-06:002019-10-28T18:45:43.048-06:00He did end up divorcing Felicia and adopting more ...<i>He did end up divorcing Felicia and adopting more a "gay man" identity.</i><br /><br />No. She died of cancer in 1978. They had a period of separation ca. 1976, but never divorced. Seriously doubt he was much of a cruiser between the ages of 57 and 73. AFAICR, he was never involved in any sort of public agitation on that particular issue. <br /><br /><br /><br /><i>I think it was in this context which his daughter suggested he was happier the other way; however her observations might have been clouded by her fond memories and perceptions of the ideal. That was her Dad after all.</i><br /><br />The list of people I've ever known who I can say with confidence idealized their father numbers precisely one, and in her case 35 years after his death (not when he was still around barking at her mother). Art Deconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-60018366749232740542019-10-28T14:54:10.151-06:002019-10-28T14:54:10.151-06:00"Here's a suggestion: Bernstein and Laure..."Here's a suggestion: Bernstein and Laurents weren't personal friends at any level, much less so intimate the Bernstein would be confiding in Laurents about his marital / sexual problems."<br /><br />It could be. Bernstein's daughter, as I've mentioned elsewhere, said he seemed happier when he was married to Felicia and playing the role of Father. The problem is (or perhaps it's not a problem) that he had homosexual liaisons the entire time.<br /><br />He did end up divorcing Felicia and adopting more a "gay man" identity.<br /><br />I think it was in this context which his daughter suggested he was happier the other way; however her observations might have been clouded by her fond memories and perceptions of the ideal. That was her Dad after all.Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-49368939134389511922019-10-28T14:45:48.986-06:002019-10-28T14:45:48.986-06:00"You mean Berklee College of Music does the h..."You mean Berklee College of Music does the hiring for that particular orchestra?"<br /><br />No, what I remember was the guy was a Harvard BA grad. who was studying at Berklee for a year or two or perhaps to get a 2nd bachelors. I don't think he majored in music at Harvard, but was just a good musician nonetheless. He was writing his own musical at 23 or so and he had a lot of connections.<br /><br />He was one of those people who hated Andrew LLoyd Weber and John Williams, but loved Sondheim and the more legit. composers. Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-66067153844025984492019-10-28T14:09:14.477-06:002019-10-28T14:09:14.477-06:00when a classical music head, fellow student was ta...<i>when a classical music head, fellow student was talking about a friend of his who was up for some prestigious position in an orchestra. He said the guy only had two problems: 1. He wasn't Jewish; and 2. He was straight.</i><br /><br />You mean Berklee College of Music does the hiring for that particular orchestra?Art Deconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-30350116621191189702019-10-28T14:05:16.116-06:002019-10-28T14:05:16.116-06:00Bernstein’s homosexual proclivities were undispute...<i>Bernstein’s homosexual proclivities were undisputed and well documented. Because he married and had children, many people assume he was bisexual. But Arthur Laurents, who collaborated with Bernstein on West Side Story, related that Bernstein was simply "a gay man who got married. He wasn't conflicted about his sexual orientation at all. He was just gay."</i><br /><br />The character string 'Laurents' does not appear in the memoir written by Bernstein's daughter. Why do you think that is?<br /><br /> Bernstein collaborated with Laurents and two other men on a theatrical project - briefly in 1949 and again during the period running from 1955-57. (At a time when Bernstein had a number of other irons in the fire, not just work with Laurents, Robbins, and Sondheim). He and Laurents had no other professional collaborations. Some surviving correspondence is consistent with the thesis that Bernstein didn't much care for Laurents personally. <br /><br /><br />Here's a suggestion: Bernstein and Laurents weren't personal friends at any level, much less so intimate the Bernstein would be confiding in Laurents about his marital / sexual problems. Art Deconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-5705663599364076652019-10-28T11:00:42.159-06:002019-10-28T11:00:42.159-06:00I first got wind of the disproportionate gay influ...I first got wind of the disproportionate gay influence at Berklee College of Music when a classical music head, fellow student was talking about a friend of his who was up for some prestigious position in an orchestra. He said the guy only had two problems: 1. He wasn't Jewish; and 2. He was straight.<br /><br /><i>Bernstein’s homosexual proclivities were undisputed and well documented. Because he married and had children, many people assume he was bisexual. But Arthur Laurents, who collaborated with Bernstein on West Side Story, related that Bernstein was simply "a gay man who got married. He wasn't conflicted about his sexual orientation at all. He was just gay." Leonard Bernstein, Jerome Robbins, Arthur Laurents and Stephen Sondheim were the four gay Jewish men, all working at the very top of their craft, who created West Side Story, one of the most enduring musicals of the 20th century. Like many gay men of his generation, Bernstein appeared to be a devoted husband and father in public while carrying on a promiscuous homosexual life behind the scenes.</i><br /><br />http://gayinfluence.blogspot.com/2011/07/leonard-bernstein.htmlJonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-69378524750506213692019-10-28T08:10:46.014-06:002019-10-28T08:10:46.014-06:00Bernstein's bisexuality has been known to the ...Bernstein's bisexuality has been known to the broader public for 35 years or more. (The notion that he had scores of sexual conquests among the Juilliard student body smells of urban legend). That political intelligence isn't well-correllated with general intelligence (much less with creativity) is well understood as well. The term 'radical chic' was coined to Tom Wolfe to describe Bernstein and his wife (fundraising for the black panther party). Ca. 1980, he made an idiot out of himself advocating unilateral disarmament. The man was quite a gift to the common life, but not to that portion of it you'd call 'civic life'. Art Deconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-74373367214679388742019-10-28T08:04:19.382-06:002019-10-28T08:04:19.382-06:00Charlie Rose was one of the greatest interviewers ...<i>Charlie Rose was one of the greatest interviewers of the modern era; but still .... </i><br /><br />No, he was the man they hired and functioned satisfactorily in that position, which is why he kept it for 30 years. I don't recall when he started at the old overnight program on CBS that he was noticeably better than his predecessor, Lem Tucker. Have juries blindly grade interview transcripts and I doubt his scores would improve on Brian Lamb or Mike Wallace or Dave Garroway. <br /><br />Garroway ruled:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSIKXcCPVqcArt Deconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-72892900638150825842019-10-28T06:17:01.493-06:002019-10-28T06:17:01.493-06:00The thing about Bernstein though is he was really ...The thing about Bernstein though is he was really good. But he did support some pretty ridiculously left wing "vanguard" political position.<br /><br />And I was discussing him on a Straussian forum and someone replied:<br /><br />"It was no secret that Lenny pursued boys. A Juilliard student told me in the Sixties that he had half of the Juilliard males."<br /><br />I think the problem here -- the whole me too thing -- is male human nature. Charlie Rose was one of the greatest interviewers of the modern era; but still .... Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-84465120260277762872019-10-27T19:03:50.515-06:002019-10-27T19:03:50.515-06:00Interesting that most of those are not financially...Interesting that most of those are not financially self-sufficient and are vulnerable to politicking and hiring your pals.<br /><br />See O'Sullivan's Law. "Mafia" indeed.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-670204212241889042019-10-27T08:52:37.224-06:002019-10-27T08:52:37.224-06:00I know we are totally off topic. Dwayne "the ...I know we are totally off topic. Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson once played a bad ass gay guy in a movie and noted he had a wrestler friend who had helped raise him who was also gay. The kind of guy you didn't want to f--k with. <br /><br />A lot of people think that because the outcomes of wrestling are predetermined and that it's "sports entertainment" that it's fake. John Stossel found out the hard way about that assumption. <br /><br />They are tough customers that you don't want to mess with.<br /><br />So this guy who influenced The Rock has got to be the legendary Pat Patterson, who would have made a great prison guard. The problem is that there aren't enough of him.<br /><br />You are much likelier to see a gay mafia take over the ranks of figure skating, ballet, classical music, musical theater, etc. because IMO there's disproportionate talent there.<br /><br />(I know, I could be just full of sh!t.)<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rhBqUIDOO4Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-1287207372468865152019-10-27T07:23:02.533-06:002019-10-27T07:23:02.533-06:00"I would think just as likely to be prison gu..."I would think just as likely to be prison guards."<br /><br />Well they certainly exist too. I've met at least two of them. But I've met more nurses, and come to think of it MDs (and JDs) and social workers. <br /><br />There is a little in the below link. Though I tend to trust my anecdotal observations more than 20th and 21st century social science.<br /><br />https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2016/01/18/there-may-be-some-truth-to-the-gay-jobs-stereotype/Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-227596663550757492019-10-26T21:28:20.296-06:002019-10-26T21:28:20.296-06:00I'd like to see some data. I would think just ...I'd like to see some data. I would think just as likely to be prison guards.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-39116763740085396362019-10-26T11:13:21.948-06:002019-10-26T11:13:21.948-06:00We are getting off topic. Not arguing a "bene...We are getting off topic. Not arguing a "benefit." Rather conditions that disproportionately "select" for homosexuals.<br /><br />Even when there is no mandatory celibacy requirement, homosexual men are disproportionately involved in "nurturing" (pastoral) type jobs. Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-37000576988000581292019-10-25T12:10:22.952-06:002019-10-25T12:10:22.952-06:00NB: Married men ARE allowed into the priesthood, u...NB: Married men ARE allowed into the priesthood, under certain circumstances. Celibacy is a custom, not a sine qua non.<br /><br />https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pope-married-priests-2017-story.html<br /><br /><br />As for homosexual clergy, it is quite a reach to argue that it is a benefit. In the least, it can lead to a certain "clubbiness" that is antithetical to the work of a pastor.<br /><br />https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/the-lavender-mafia-unmaskedTom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-76989487912245429012019-10-25T11:38:45.225-06:002019-10-25T11:38:45.225-06:00"The rot's been there for some decades. F..."The rot's been there for some decades. Fr. Mankowski has said the majority of men he entered formation with in 1974 were homosexuals hiding in the tall grass."<br /><br />I'm not anti-celibacy. In the ideal, celibacy/sexual sublimation seems connected with some amazing human accomplishments.<br /><br />Though, it really hasn't, as I see it, worked in the modern Catholic world. Homosexual men tend to be more intelligent, consequently educated, and nurturing ("pastoral") than average. Add to that the mandatory celibacy requirement, and the Catholic priesthood seems to disproportionately select for homosexuals.<br /><br />I'd change that requirement and allow married men into the priesthood.<br /><br />However, as someone who isn't a practicing Catholic, I understand, it's in no way my call.Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-83957940850352152482019-10-24T15:39:23.964-06:002019-10-24T15:39:23.964-06:00here's the good news though
He explained to ...here's the good news though<br /><br /><br /><i>He explained to me that the Society of Jesus has renounced Fr. Pedro Arrupe's groundbreaking vision of justice and the documents of the 31st and 32nd General Congregations, which call for a radical commitment to justice. It no longer advocates for justice or works for justice, he told me. The Maryland Province has closed all its projects that serve the poor. From now on, he said, because the number of Jesuits is in sharp decline, U.S. Jesuits will only serve in our 25 universities and 25 high schools. This direction, it seems to me, differs vastly from the order I entered in 1982, with its visionary call to "accompany Jesus as he carries the cross in the struggle for justice." If I stayed, he said, I would have to work in one of the Jesuit high schools.</i><br /><br /><br />only 50 more to go<br /><br />at the moment there are more ex-Jesuits in America than Jesuits<br /><br /><br />circling the bowlTom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-46082282001043740352019-10-24T15:07:18.970-06:002019-10-24T15:07:18.970-06:00I would, however, be interested in hearing the rea...<i>I would, however, be interested in hearing the reasons that you consider make them "far-left." </i><br /><br />You can start with the career of Peter Marchetti, SJ. Or the Berrigan brothers. <br /><br />That aside, what's notable about the Jesuits is deep corruption. They have a few prominent men devoted to the Church's mission (e.g. Fr. Joseph Fessio, Fr. Paul Mankowski, and Fr. Paul O'Shaughnessy). For the most part, it's a gay cult and the output of <i>America</i> makes plain that it's controlled by an <i>open</i> cabal of the Church's enemies. The rot's been there for some decades. Fr. Mankowski has said the majority of men he entered formation with in 1974 were homosexuals hiding in the tall grass. That the College of Cardinals selected one of the dopier members of this outfit is an indication of rot at the Church's apex and center that hasn't been seen in 500 years. Art Deconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-8424604211062602482019-10-24T13:39:31.038-06:002019-10-24T13:39:31.038-06:00Again dude, there was no debate.
Someone asked ...Again dude, there was no debate. <br /><br />Someone asked about formulating the Catholic Fundamentalist conception and I merely provided one possible source. The "debate" appears to be happening in your head.<br /><br />And, as I alluded to above, anything more liberal than <i>Opus Dei</i> seems to completely wreck you. So of course the Jesuits are "far-left." <br /><br />I would, however, be interested in hearing the reasons that you consider make them "far-left." jimmiraybobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-19999055823734582422019-10-23T21:22:37.074-06:002019-10-23T21:22:37.074-06:00Jesuits are far-left. Using them as your source lo...Jesuits are far-left. Using them as your source lost you the debate.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-9828046067338190052019-10-23T20:13:56.939-06:002019-10-23T20:13:56.939-06:00Seriously dude, you're embarrassing the blog. ...Seriously dude, you're embarrassing the blog. Words do not seem to be getting to your brain. Maybe it's the shades. Maybe you should try transitions.jimmiraybobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-81278483807475489822019-10-22T18:12:48.158-06:002019-10-22T18:12:48.158-06:00'no it's not' is not an argument
you...'no it's not' is not an argument<br /><br /><br />you should apply your manifestly formidable Google skills to actually learning something about the Jesuits LOL<br /><br />Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-66954397254564787642019-10-21T19:18:37.536-06:002019-10-21T19:18:37.536-06:00"Once again you end up proving the point you&...<i>"Once again you end up proving the point you're trying to rebut,..."</i><br /><br />He shoots. He misses. Again.jimmiraybobnoreply@blogger.com