tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post1555505487449481102..comments2024-03-28T10:44:30.518-06:00Comments on American Creation: Thomas Paine: America is a Protestant NationBrad Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17669677047039491864noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-84440772717887312182011-11-01T17:27:15.700-06:002011-11-01T17:27:15.700-06:00Great article, Tom. Paine had so few people at his...Great article, Tom. Paine had so few people at his funeral in large part because he publicly attacked both Christianity and George Washington. A double no-no in late 18th/early 19th century America.Brian Tubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15412421076480479001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-24104234188690308842011-10-19T15:58:27.372-06:002011-10-19T15:58:27.372-06:00Yes, "Marxist" is a pejorative in popula...Yes, "Marxist" is a pejorative in popular speech, but I don't intend it that way. Even used a small "m" to take some of the sting out of it.<br /><br />If you read Adam Smith's "The Theory of Moral Sentiments," his first and some say better book, you'll mind he's not "marxist" atall: he's more in the "people want to be admired" school.<br /><br />As for Jesus, I don't think he's really into materialism either.<br /><br />;-)Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-7056907835020753952011-10-19T11:10:20.088-06:002011-10-19T11:10:20.088-06:00...the "marxist" interpretation, if you ...<i>...the "marxist" interpretation, if you will...</i><br /><br />Or, the "Adam Smithist" or the "Jesus of Nazarethist" interpretation if we're looking for other people* concerned with economic interpretation of human actions.<br /><br />Not sure why every time someone brings up the possibility of an economic incentive for action it's necessary to shout Marxism right away.<br /><br />*Assuming the fully human nature only at this time of course.jimmiraybobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-88329220931826227202011-10-19T10:51:16.388-06:002011-10-19T10:51:16.388-06:00TVD, Your insight about Madison seems sound.TVD, Your insight about Madison seems sound.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12165084874363214919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-48335393605139461702011-10-18T17:14:13.034-06:002011-10-18T17:14:13.034-06:00"The Age of Reason" argued in favor of a...<i>"The Age of Reason" argued in favor of a Creator God. And a God who guides history through natural and subtle processes is consistent with 18th century natural religion.<br /><br />Paine may have believed what he said about the Almighty's hand. </i><br /><br />I did have that thought meself, Daniel, but glossed over it for simplicity's sake.<br /><br />It's my pet theory, more an induction from his writings and biography, that Madison opposed state-financed churches because they would ossify existing doctrines rather them grow or liberalize them into something Madison may have preferred, say unitarianism.<br /><br />And Paine could have contemplated America as a divinely-ordained safe haven for similar theological "progress."<br /><br />Thx for the sharp observation, and do let me know if you discover anything further along these lines.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-62969274976760183262011-10-18T15:11:30.506-06:002011-10-18T15:11:30.506-06:00"The Age of Reason" argued in favor of a..."The Age of Reason" argued in favor of a Creator God. And a God who guides history through natural and subtle processes is consistent with 18th century natural religion.<br /><br />Paine may have believed what he said about the Almighty's hand. I haven't read "The Age of Reason" with the question in mind, but there may not be an inconsistency here. The inconsistency is with our ideas of Deism or of the Enlightenment.<br /><br />Interesting post. The more I read here, the more I suspect that there is no one among the 'key framers' or the circle around them who fit in any of our boxes.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12165084874363214919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-42119507441636241132011-10-18T13:02:10.596-06:002011-10-18T13:02:10.596-06:00This is good stuff again. The first thing that ca...This is good stuff again. The first thing that came to mind was my comment that I made on your first post about whether this doesn't represent the "Protestant" component of theistic rationalism, the radical revision of the Bible for political purposes that Gregg Frazer notes. And whether this understanding of the Bible isn't in face a "Whig-Enlightenment" one.Jonathan Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079637406589278386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1237087217187172116.post-82278202334720018422011-10-18T08:05:40.329-06:002011-10-18T08:05:40.329-06:00Paine’s “argument from design” is amusing. He view...Paine’s “argument from design” is amusing. He views America as a haven for refugees from religious persecution, but, unlike the Puritans, not for a theocracy. He’s clearly antiauthoritarian--almost an anarchist. Notice he also attacks “checks and balances” and advocates a unicameral democracy. His hostility to government, as known in the English-speaking world, prompts John Adams to write a rejoinder. Thanks to John Adams' uncommon sense we became America and not France.<br /><br />No doubt, however, that Paine knows how to address his audience. Paine pulls out all the stops. And you're right, it tells us something about the common man circa 1776.Jason Pappashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18233796281520274898noreply@blogger.com